Ford Engine Brake???

[johnboytoo]

Ah,
just read that thread --> http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/99...ust-brake.html

and the parameters of above 2000 rpms, cruise, etc.... caught my eye...

those dang computers have to meet ALL their parameters before they pay attention...

[brenkco]

Dang, you at least have to do a photo! That would be cool!

K

[Blue Dogs]

The 2015 Fords are supposed to have improved engine braking.

[porthole]

Originally Posted by atom ant

But the 6.7 still has an exhaust brake?

6.7's do not have an exhaust brake.

2011-2014, contrary to Mike Rowe's explanation in the videos, do not have an exhaust brake. What they do have is engine - grade braking which uses the transmission programming to give us some serious downshifts. It does work in the normal mode but is designed to be much more aggressive in the tow haul mode.
It works ok on typical highway ups and downs, but stinks on the the backroad roller coaster roads especially with 17-18K pushing.

If the 11-14's had the VG turbos we probably would have saw a Banks kit for it 3 years ago.
Banks actually did in 2007 what the big three are now doing, manipulating the turbo vane for engine braking..

For 2015 Ford added the variable vane geometry to the a new and larger turbo. GM has had this since 2006, and Ram AFAIK replaced the exhaust brake with the VGT several years ago.

Hill descent is only on SRW's and only below 20 mph. That feature will slow the truck on steep hills by applying the brakes. It is meant for off roading.

FX4 has nothing to do with performance and for the most part is a waste of money.

[porthole]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Thanks John!

Lost a hubcap on the rear already - jee zoots - right at picture time with the Redwood

That thing is (was) like a chrome trash can or Air Police helmet - feel bad for however was behind me

Two months ago front cap came off on the Jersey bumps.
Last week a rear cap on the Mass bumps

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by porthole

6.7's do not have an exhaust brake.

2011-2014, contrary to Mike Rowe's explanation in the videos, do not have an exhaust brake. What they do have is engine - grade braking which uses the transmission programming to give us some serious downshifts. It does work in the normal mode but is designed to be much more aggressive in the tow haul mode.
It works ok on typical highway ups and downs, but stinks on the the backroad roller coaster roads especially with 17-18K pushing.

If the 11-14's had the VG turbos we probably would have saw a Banks kit for it 3 years ago.
Banks actually did in 2007 what the big three are now doing, manipulating the turbo vane for engine braking..

For 2015 Ford added the variable vane geometry to the a new and larger turbo. GM has had this since 2006, and Ram AFAIK replaced the exhaust brake with the VGT several years ago.

Hill descent is only on SRW's and only below 20 mph. That feature will slow the truck on steep hills by applying the brakes. It is meant for off roading.

FX4 has nothing to do with performance and for the most part is a waste of money.

Matches my experiences.

This is what the 2011 Super Duty Brochure says:

ENGINE-EXHAUST BRAKING helps provide

better grade descent control with less brake

and transmission wear and tear. Fully integrated

with tow/haul mode, it provides increased

engine braking at higher engine speeds.

Thanks!

[Dave&Ginny]

Originally Posted by porthole

6.7's do not have an exhaust brake.

2011-2014, contrary to Mike Rowe's explanation in the videos, do not have an exhaust brake. What they do have is engine - grade braking which uses the transmission programming to give us some serious downshifts. It does work in the normal mode but is designed to be much more aggressive in the tow haul mode.
It works ok on typical highway ups and downs, but stinks on the the backroad roller coaster roads especially with 17-18K pushing.

If the 11-14's had the VG turbos we probably would have saw a Banks kit for it 3 years ago.
Banks actually did in 2007 what the big three are now doing, manipulating the turbo vane for engine braking..

For 2015 Ford added the variable vane geometry to the a new and larger turbo. GM has had this since 2006, and Ram AFAIK replaced the exhaust brake with the VGT several years ago.

Hill descent is only on SRW's and only below 20 mph. That feature will slow the truck on steep hills by applying the brakes. It is meant for off roading.

FX4 has nothing to do with performance and for the most part is a waste of money.

If they were'nt using the exhaust for some of the braking, than why would the larger turbo play into it at all?

[Dave&Ginny]

Originally Posted by porthole

Two months ago front cap came off on the Jersey bumps.
Last week a rear cap on the Mass bumps

That's surprising with the TS3 hitch you have. I've had my RL all over the country with an estimated 38000 miles and so far nothing has fallen off. I am thinking about putting the TS3 on my next truck because I've heard good things about it.

[Blue Dogs]

Originally Posted by porthole

6.7's do not have an exhaust brake.

Wrong!
2011-2014 Fords use a Garrett 3.2 variable vane turbo, it uses almost the same technology as GM and Ram. It also uses grade braking transmission programming to shift down. The 2015 use a G 3.7 turbo adding a bigger turbo adding more back pressure gasses. The new 15 fords have a separate switch the 11-14's have it with the tow haul switch. If a diesel had nothing to create back pressure there would not be any reason to shift it down, it would just run away. There is very little back pressure created in a 2 stroke diesel so shifting down would just rev the engine but do nothing to slow.

From Diesel world magazine "Behind the Power Stroke is an all-new six-speed automatic that not only features a tow/haul mode, which also activates the Super Duty’s built-in exhaust brake"

[rob_fla]

I like the fact our 2012 GMC has a switch on the dash to turn the Exhaust Brake On and Off, I can use the Exhaust brake on steep grades when not towing without having to put the truck in Tow/Haul mode.

[spindrift]

This is the problem with this thread. Too many people throwing around terms that technically speaking, they do not understand.

Technically speaking, there isn't a Ford Super Duty on the market (and I believe this includes the 2015) that has an exhaust brake. This is an exhaust brake: http://pacbrake.com/supplemental-bra...kes/mechanics/ If anyone can show me a picture of their stock Super Duty with an installed exhaust brake, I'd very much appreciate the gesture.

The only auxilliary "braking" that is available in the 2011-2014s is transmission braking. Turbo "braking" is available on earlier models because those models have the Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT) that allows for the closing of vanes on the turbo side and the subsequent increase of exhaust backpressure on the system. I believe the 2015 has a VGT, so Ford is going back to this technology.

Some of the 2011 and earlier 2012 Powerstroke models suffered from turbo failure and the aftermarket industry responded with the Garrett turbo which had been used on the Duramax with great success.

[johnboytoo]

Actually, you are right, it's semantics... but it's semantics the mfg uses too
technology changes and so do the names
(I was raised calling this symbol--> #, the pound sign )

from 2011 on they have a variable vane turbo and the 2015 has a larger vv turbo.
(and IIRC my 2005 excursion 6 liter had the variable vane turbo - but didn't use it as an exhaust brake)

So turbo brake, coconut tree, back pressure, etc...
whatever you want to call it...
on my last two 6.7's when I hit that tow/haul button it slows me down quickly enough unloaded or towing that I now reach for it as a first thought when I have to stop...

and when some doofus has pulled out in front of the 23k lbs of moving house I've been pleasantly surprised how quickly it will go through the gears and slow me down...

if it does it by throwing out a parachute or dragging an anchor, don't really care how it works, just that it does save us and at the same time saves our brake pads

[spindrift]

Brake pads are a lot less expensive to replace than a turbo.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by spindrift

The only auxilliary "braking" that is available in the 2011-2014s is transmission braking. Turbo "braking" is available on earlier models because those models have the Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT) that allows for the closing of vanes on the turbo side and the subsequent increase of exhaust backpressure on the system. I believe the 2015 has a VGT, so Ford is going back to this technology.

OK Confusion again. This would imply that 2010 and earlier, and 2015 have VGT, but 2011-2014 have nothing? That would be inconsistent with the Ford brochure for 2011 below

ENGINE-EXHAUST BRAKING helps provide

better grade descent control with less brake

and transmission wear and tear. Fully integrated

with tow/haul mode, it provides increased

engine braking at higher engine speeds.

[porthole]

Originally Posted by Dave&Ginny

If they were'nt using the exhaust for some of the braking, than why would the larger turbo play into it at all?

Originally Posted by Dave&Ginny

That's surprising with the TS3 hitch you have. I've had my RL all over the country with an estimated 38000 miles and so far nothing has fallen off. I am thinking about putting the TS3 on my next truck because I've heard good things about it.

Originally Posted by Blue Dogs

Wrong!
2011-2014 Fords use a Garrett 3.2 variable vane turbo, it uses almost the same technology as GM and Ram. It also uses grade braking transmission programming to shift down. The 2015 use a G 3.7 turbo adding a bigger turbo adding more back pressure gasses. The new 15 fords have a separate switch the 11-14's have it with the tow haul switch. If a diesel had nothing to create back pressure there would not be any reason to shift it down, it would just run away. There is very little back pressure created in a 2 stroke diesel so shifting down would just rev the engine but do nothing to slow.

From Diesel world magazine "Behind the Power Stroke is an all-new six-speed automatic that not only features a tow/haul mode, which also activates the Super Duty’s built-in exhaust brake"

My bad. Yes, the 11-14 do have VGT but it is not used for braking. And as is common through out the industry, calling a turbo brake an exhaust brake does not make it an exhaust brake. Two different animals. When GM added the VGT and Banks added the turbo brake feature that combo made for one great stopping beast.


"almost the same technology as GM and Ram". Almost, but no turbo brake. Transmission grade braking.

I have yet to find the behind the scene answer, but there is a reason Ford switched from the 2 stage turbo to the larger diameter single stage and added true turbo braking to the PCM.

The 15's can turn the turbo brake on and off with the dash switch.
The 11-14's tow haul mode is PCM programming changes. Including, converter lock up at lower speeds in most gears (not sure if you can get lock up in 1st) and higher upshifts and downshifts as well as increased line pressures for the trans.


Diesels lack engine braking typically because of the lack of a throttle body - in most cases. The 6.7 does use a throttle body to control air flow.
BTW, the modern diesel engine is a 4 stroke.
Last domestic 2 stroke diesel was the Detroit *-** series. 6-71, 12-92 etc

Now, if we could get Telma retarders on our trucks that would be great.

[0nTheRoad]

Wow, I'm almost sorry I started this thread!!!

I got the information I needed...an much more!

Lets just put this to bed knowing all 3 manufacturers have some sort of supplemental braking.

[porthole]

Originally Posted by Dave&Ginny

That's surprising with the TS3 hitch you have. I've had my RL all over the country with an estimated 38000 miles and so far nothing has fallen off. I am thinking about putting the TS3 on my next truck because I've heard good things about it.

Because of the lack of grease points, lack of repair parts and the wearing of parts and now significant slop, when my TS-3 finally fails I will not buy another one.

Originally Posted by Dave&Ginny

If they were'nt using the exhaust for some of the braking, than why would the larger turbo play into it at all?

They were not, but they are for 2015. I drove one and am seriously considering now switching up. Even with a no load test drive I could feel the effects of the brake. Although I would really like to test drive with my trailer.
Just can't decide between the 350 with wide track or go straight to the 450

[spindrift]

How do they make a 350 wide track?

[johnboytoo]

Originally Posted by spindrift

Brake pads are a lot less expensive to replace than a turbo.

Not with a 100k mile drivetrain warranty

and bet most of us have swapped out a few more brake pads than turbo's

[Dave&Ginny]

Originally Posted by johnboytoo

Actually, you are right, it's semantics... but it's semantics the mfg uses too
technology changes and so do the names
(I was raised calling this symbol--> #, the pound sign )

from 2011 on they have a variable vane turbo and the 2015 has a larger vv turbo.
(and IIRC my 2005 excursion 6 liter had the variable vane turbo - but didn't use it as an exhaust brake)

So turbo brake, coconut tree, back pressure, etc...
whatever you want to call it...
on my last two 6.7's when I hit that tow/haul button it slows me down quickly enough unloaded or towing that I now reach for it as a first thought when I have to stop...

and when some doofus has pulled out in front of the 23k lbs of moving house I've been pleasantly surprised how quickly it will go through the gears and slow me down...

if it does it by throwing out a parachute or dragging an anchor, don't really care how it works, just that it does save us and at the same time saves our brake pads

I agree..............