Ford Engine Brake???

[0nTheRoad]

snub brake??? Not sure I know that term.

[atom ant]

If the engine can't hold back the rig to a desired speed, you can snub brake- letting the truck run up to the desired speed then braking hard to bring it 5-10 mph under that speed and allow it to coast back up letting the brakes cool.

Probably stuff you do already - better than riding the brakes.

[trinita]

Do you need to have the tow/haul mode turned on in order for the engine brake to operate? In other words, if you are not towing, will the engine brake slow the truck?

Thanks
Rick

[almcc]

Originally Posted by trinita

Do you need to have the tow/haul mode turned on in order for the engine brake to operate? In other words, if you are not towing, will the engine brake slow the truck?

Thanks
Rick

On our 2011 I have to be either in Tow/Haul or in cruise to have the braking and downshifting work

[0nTheRoad]

Originally Posted by almcc

On our 2011 I have to be either in Tow/Haul or in cruise to have the braking and downshifting work

Just to make sure we all understand...we're talking Ford diesels here, Bow-Ties and Rams have a true engine brake as I understand???

The Ford does not, they use the turbo and transmission to do the engine brake function WHEN in tow/haul mode ; the turbo shuts down the air intake and the tranny downshifts.

Brad, thanks for explaining "snub brake", yes I do slow below desired speed then release brake to bring down the speed while going down hill. Lately I slow down to 35-45 before starting the descent and downshift to 3rd gear, this helps keep the speed in check much better.

[almcc]

Originally Posted by 0nTheRoad

Just to make sure we all understand...we're talking Ford diesels here, Bow-Ties and Rams have a true engine brake as I understand???

The Ford does not, they use the turbo and transmission to do the engine brake function WHEN in tow/haul mode ; the turbo shuts down the air intake and the tranny downshifts.

Brad, thanks for explaining "snub brake", yes I do slow below desired speed then release brake to bring down the speed while going down hill. Lately I slow down to 35-45 before starting the descent and downshift to 3rd gear, this helps keep the speed in check much better.

Yes, my 2011 is a F-450.

I just walked through a couple of websites that tested Rams and GMs, as you can't tell from the advertising on GM and Ram websites exactly what kind of engine brake the diesels have unless you walk through the technical data.

Here is a quote from one:

"The Cummins returns, in three power levels as in 2013, with a new smart exhaust brake (using Cummins’ unique sliding-nozzle turbine) for a smoother ride, and better performance and durability from a new cooling system. The diesel has a variable-geometry turbocharger, building on Chrysler-Garrett work from the 1980s."

and another:

"The Chevy grade braking with the Allison 1000 transmission and exhaust brake (which is actually a variable vane turbocharger) work together exceptionally well. We can't wait to get a heavier load on these trucks and get them to Davis Dam on the Arizona-Nevada border and Colorado's Eisenhower Pass grade."

From the above it would appear that all three have variable vane turbo engine brakes, not the true "Jake Brake" that existed on the Dodge Cummins back around 2007 in what's called "pre-emission" diesel days.

[johnboytoo]

Actually dislike the downshift when in cruise for the most part,
but that because in the southeast our 'mountains' don't really NEED the downshifting drama to handle the speeds

but if on higher grades I could see where it would help !

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by almcc

Yes, my 2011 is a F-450.

I just walked through a couple of websites that tested Rams and GMs, as you can't tell from the advertising on GM and Ram websites exactly what kind of engine brake the diesels have unless you walk through the technical data.

Here is a quote from one:

"The Cummins returns, in three power levels as in 2013, with a new smart exhaust brake (using Cummins’ unique sliding-nozzle turbine) for a smoother ride, and better performance and durability from a new cooling system. The diesel has a variable-geometry turbocharger, building on Chrysler-Garrett work from the 1980s."

and another:

"The Chevy grade braking with the Allison 1000 transmission and exhaust brake (which is actually a variable vane turbocharger) work together exceptionally well. We can't wait to get a heavier load on these trucks and get them to Davis Dam on the Arizona-Nevada border and Colorado's Eisenhower Pass grade."

From the above it would appear that all three have variable vane turbo engine brakes, not the true "Jake Brake" that existed on the Dodge Cummins back around 2007 in what's called "pre-emission" diesel days.

The Dodge says it has a variable vane turbo, but doesn't necessariliy say that is what is used for the brake like Chevs do.

[lwg]

If any of the big 3 actually have a real exhaust brake it's Dodge. Also note that a "Jake Brake" is not the same thing as an exhaust brake. On the early 2000 Dodges you could easily add a real exhaust brake via aftermarket suppliers. Watched a guy put one on in the parking lot of a Moab Motel. He wanted to install it for his drive back home when towing his off road buggy.

[atom ant]

Ya I IM'd my buddy and he says his 2012 Dodge has an factory exhaust brake, similar to the aftermarket type.

[Blue Dogs]

The exhaust brakes on all of the big three trucks use the same technology. A variable vein turbo. Some say they aren't as effective as a true exhaust brake. They all will close off the exhaust gases from exiting the engine creating back pressure to slow you down. There really isn't much difference between and exhaust brake and the one inside the turbo except it's done inside the turbo rather than on the exit of the turbo. Also the "grade braking" on the Allison is no more than the programming that shifts the transmission into a lower gear. The Ford and ram do the same. There is no "braking" done by the transmission. The reason shifting down slows you more is it increases the RPM's of the engine putting more exhaust gasses into the cylinders making the engine compress more volume with creates more back pressure slowing you faster. ... Hope that's not to long lol
On this page there is a great video from an engineer at Ram explaining how the variable vein turbos work for braking. http://blog.ramtrucks.com/ram-techno...exhaust-brake/
So the basics of all three are the same Ford, Ram and GM

[atom ant]

Well I'm certainly glad I didn't invest in an exhaust brake if this is as good as it gets. I would never miss it, not much different than my old 7.3.

[Blue Dogs]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Well I'm certainly glad I didn't invest in an exhaust brake if this is as good as it gets. I would never miss it, not much different than my old 7.3.

Something is wrong then, the 7.3 had no exhaust brake and would run away, my 14 will hold the redwood on a 6% grade. (3rd gear) If yours won't I'd have it checked for function. A diesel without some sort of exhaust brake to build back pressure will just run away.

[lwg]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Well I'm certainly glad I didn't invest in an exhaust brake if this is as good as it gets. I would never miss it, not much different than my old 7.3.

I find this interesting. I had a tuned and tweaked 7.3l and think the engine braking on my 2013 is night and day better than that truck. For the most part I can set the speed with my current 2013 and Redwood in tow and it'll hold that speed. On the 7.3L coming down from the Eisenhower Tunnel was a little spooky with a trailer in tow, no worries with the new truck.

[brenkco]

Yale,
Great explanation. I have pulled some good grades both the Siskiyous and tehachapi's and have found the ford held speed well on some significant grades. The most severe, I just tapped the brakes a few times and was in 3rd, with total speed control at about 50.

My '06 Dodge had a jake brake, column mounted, that worked ok, just not the control as were have with the newer technology.

Ken

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by lwg

I find this interesting. I had a tuned and tweaked 7.3l and think the engine braking on my 2013 is night and day better than that truck. For the most part I can set the speed with my current 2013 and Redwood in tow and it'll hold that speed. On the 7.3L coming down from the Eisenhower Tunnel was a little spooky with a trailer in tow, no worries with the new truck.

I triple towed down from Eisenhower with my 7.3 and it did as well as this one, as long as I shifted it down manually.



The braking and downshifting is the same as I had on my 6.0, 6.4 - nice, but I'm sure not feeling any engine braking different on this than the old ones. I think I'll make a run up to Eisenhower this weekend without the trailer and try it. Maybe I'll feel something.

If not I'll take it in to see what they see.

[atom ant]

Just looked through some similar discussion in the Ford Enthusiast forum as well. I think mine is working fine, I'm just not alone in thinking the feature is rather unremarkable on the Ford. Lots of good about the 2015 though.

[johnboytoo]

REALLY surprising then...
mine will snap you forward into the seat belt when it downshifts... and really helps in slowing the mass down since I suspect the rw brakes are contaminated with grease .

but it is what it is

[brenkco]

Brad,
I continue to admire, now a Redwood with your Searay in tow! Perfect.

If your rig weight is similar to mine, we have about 2k+\- more than the Montana. I noticed a difference pulling some severe grades. With the Monte, I had plenty of accelerator and 4th seemed to hold well on decent (that was my 12 F350 SRW).

Now with the Redwood and the F450 with 4:30 rear, I'm maxed pulling grades at 55-60 and using 3rd to maintain decent. I figure it's just the weight difference as there's not much difference in the truck.

Ken

[atom ant]

Ken - no Searay behind the Redwood too long. We take 2 tow vehicles now, actually ever since the 2007 Montana 3400RL. That pic was my 2003 2955RL on Wolf Creek pass.

I think you are right, it's just the additional weight - This Redwood is over 2 tons heavier than the Montana was, and with the 3.73 gears vs my old 4.10, I'm just over-running the capability a bit of that brake.

John, It does downshift and that has always been a comfort on the Tow Command on the Fords. That part works perfect.