Ford Engine Brake???

[Blue Dogs]

Porthole,
I respectfully disagree. The 2011-14 power strokes do use integrated vvt technology exhaust braking activated with the tow haul switch. This is from the 2014 ford brochure "Tow/Haul Mode With
Integrated Exhaust Brake" if they had no exhaust braking they would be false advertising and most likely sued.
There is no way a transmission has braking. The increase of exhaust gasses being introduced into the cylinder when the transmission shifts down speeding up the rpm being held in place by the VVT being closed is what slows not the torque converter or transmission. The vvt closing and an exhaust brake right after the turbo do pretty much the same thing. The lock up in the torque converter allows the the exhaust brake to hold back and not cause a slip in the converter allowing the load to run through it.
These are direct injected engines and do not use a throttle body, they have intake manifolds yes but every cylinder has an injector a throttle body mixes fuel and air then sends it to the cylinders, none of today's diesels use the throttle body.
People who have a GM product can test the effectiveness of the vvt braking. Start down a hill loaded put your truck in tow haul and see how it holds you back when it shifts down, then activate the brake and see the difference. As posted earlier, here is a video that shows how the vvt technology works. http://youtu.be/WXYGN-bep2Q While this video is from Ram they all work in the same way. As far as the turbo getting worn out from this I don't see an issue, the vanes in the turbo move all the time anyway. The hill decent has nothing to do with any of this and works in a completely different way.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by spindrift

How do they make a 350 wide track?

The F350 wide track option uses the wider F450 front axles, fender and bumper flares to extend over the wider stance, and the 4.30 rear gears.

The result is the front wheels set closer to the outside duallies (not all the way) and the turning radius is the same as the F450 (better).

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Blue Dogs

Porthole,
I respectfully disagree. The 2011-14 power strokes do use integrated vvt technology exhaust braking activated with the tow haul switch. This is from the 2014 ford brochure "Tow/Haul Mode With
Integrated Exhaust Brake" if they had no exhaust braking they would be false advertising and most likely sued.
There is no way a transmission has braking. The increase of exhaust gasses being introduced into the cylinder when the transmission shifts down speeding up the rpm being held in place by the VVT being closed is what slows not the torque converter or transmission. The vvt closing and an exhaust brake right after the turbo do pretty much the same thing. The lock up in the torque converter allows the the exhaust brake to hold back and not cause a slip in the converter allowing the load to run through it.
These are direct injected engines and do not use a throttle body, they have intake manifolds yes but every cylinder has an injector a throttle body mixes fuel and air then sends it to the cylinders, none of today's diesels use the throttle body.
People who have a GM product can test the effectiveness of the vvt braking. Start down a hill loaded put your truck in tow haul and see how it holds you back when it shifts down, then activate the brake and see the difference. As posted earlier, here is a video that shows how the vvt technology works. http://youtu.be/WXYGN-bep2Q While this video is from Ram they all work in the same way. As far as the turbo getting worn out from this I don't see an issue, the vanes in the turbo move all the time anyway. The hill decent has nothing to do with any of this and works in a completely different way.

I agree - there has to be something to the hype back in 2011 about built in engine braking on the Fords.

[porthole]

Originally Posted by Blue Dogs

I respectfully disagree.

I as well.

A VGT is not exhaust braking, it is turbo braking.

I have yet to find any Ford documentation from any source that shows that the 11-14 PCM controls the vanes for turbo braking.

The VGT is in use all the time, not just when the T/H mode is activated.

An auto trans by way of locking the converter absolutely has engine braking, no different then using a manual trans the same way. That is why in T/H mode the converter locks earlier and in all gears (again same IDK exception for first gear). The locked converter and trans acts the same as a manual trans with the clutch engaged.

There is no exhaust brake right after the turbo.

Direct injected yes and the Ford still uses a throttle body to control air flow.

From page 39 of the 2011 Ford 6.7 "coffee table book":
Intake Throttle Body
The intake throttle body is located on the top of the engine, attached to the lower intake manifold.
The intake throttle body controls air flow into the intake air system.

In that same book there are 8 pages related to how the air intake system and 10 pages related to how the exhaust system operate and not once is it mentioned that the turbo VGT is used for braking.

Now, if there was a way to operate it I sure would like to know, because pulling 17-18K on the roller coaster hills of NE PA into NY sure could use it.

GM and Ram have been using the VGT braking for several years now, never heard any reason why Ford has not adopted the programing until 2015. Perhaps the dual fans were not up to the additional stress of having the vanes close down under a heavy load.

Mike Rowe's unscientific explanation - downshifts and lets exhaust into the intake to "starve" the combustion process. Which BTW has been happening all along thanks to EGR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqiSF-Rh1ao

Originally Posted by Blue Dogs

I respectfully disagree. The 2011-14 power strokes do use integrated vvt technology exhaust braking activated with the tow haul switch. This is from the 2014 ford brochure "Tow/Haul Mode With
Integrated Exhaust Brake" if they had no exhaust braking they would be false advertising and most likely sued.
There is no way a transmission has braking. The increase of exhaust gasses being introduced into the cylinder when the transmission shifts down speeding up the rpm being held in place by the VVT being closed is what slows not the torque converter or transmission. The vvt closing and an exhaust brake right after the turbo do pretty much the same thing. The lock up in the torque converter allows the the exhaust brake to hold back and not cause a slip in the converter allowing the load to run through it.
These are direct injected engines and do not use a throttle body, they have intake manifolds yes but every cylinder has an injector a throttle body mixes fuel and air then sends it to the cylinders, none of today's diesels use the throttle body.

People who have a GM product can test the effectiveness of the vvt braking. Start down a hill loaded put your truck in tow haul and see how it holds you back when it shifts down, then activate the brake and see the difference. As posted earlier, here is a video that shows how the vvt technology works. http://youtu.be/WXYGN-bep2Q While this video is from Ram they all work in the same way. As far as the turbo getting worn out from this I don't see an issue, the vanes in the turbo move all the time anyway. The hill decent has nothing to do with any of this and works in a completely different way.

[Dave&Ginny]

I think we're picking the fly crap out of the pepper at this point. We know that the brakes on the tires aren't the only things stopping these massive loads. As long as they stop, I don't really care how they stop.

I've had my rig all through the Rockies and that's a good enough test for me

[0nTheRoad]

Originally Posted by Dave&Ginny

I think we're picking the fly crap out of the pepper at this point. We know that the brakes on the tires aren't the only things stopping these massive loads. As long as they stop, I don't really care how they stop.

I've had my rig all through the Rockies and that's a good enough test for me

Dave...love your terminology and I agree we've beat this to death!!!

Can we move on?

[Blue Dogs]

I'm done! Lol

[Dave&Ginny]

Originally Posted by Blue Dogs

I'm done! Lol

That's good! Brought a smile to my face

[atom ant]

I've decided to only travel uphill, then I don't have to worry about it.

[0nTheRoad]

Or you could stay in florida...they don't have any hills!!

[atom ant]

Would love to!

[homeguy]

ok, so I have read over this entire section and understand some but not all of it. Too me, the brake on my Dodge that is controlled by a switch, whatever you want to call it, helps with braking quite a bit. But, more importantly, it makes a cool noise when I use it. The heavier the load, the cooler the noise. As long as they all make that noise, I'm happy.

[atom ant]

I don't think the Ford or Chevs make any noise.

[lwg]

Originally Posted by atom ant

I don't think the Ford or Chevs make any noise.

Mine doesn't other than the massive revving of the engine at 3000+ RPM to get adequate braking... I've actually wondering if the truck would upshift once it hits the engine redline while "turbo" braking down a hill?

[atom ant]

I was wondering exactly that! I chickened out at about 3800 rpm and braked.

[Oriana]

Brad you're braver than me, I try not to go above 3,500

[atom ant]

I won't anymore, I was testing the engine brake. Somewhere somebody said it doesn't kick in until 3500. From now on I'll just brake it.

[johnboytoo]

to make sure we are stating it correctly the manual calls it 'engine braking'...
so, yes, you win, it's not an 'exhaust brake'...
but it's ford's version of it

I haven't been on the 'hills' you have,
but two scenarios where it downshifts on it's own..

when cruise is set and the speed starts to go more than 3 or 4 mph higher, it downshifts to slow down (even when NOT in tow/haul)

also, without cruise, if tow/haul is on and I hit the brakes, it starts downshifting...

from the manual you can download on owner.ford.com:

INTEGRATED ENGINE BRAKING
This feature increases engine braking at higher engine speeds to provide better grade descent control with less brake and transmission wear and
tear. This feature is integrated with the tow/haul mode feature.
When tow/haul mode is switched on, the integrated engine braking feature will also be active. For more information on tow/haul, see Automatic transmission operation in the Owner Manual.


D (Overdrive) with Tow/Haul Off
D (Overdrive) with tow/haul off is the normal driving position for the
best fuel economy. The overdrive function allows automatic upshifts and
downshifts through gears one through five.
D (Overdrive) with Tow/Haul On
The tow/haul feature improves transmission operation when towing a
trailer or a heavy load. All transmission gear ranges are available when
using tow/haul.

Warning: Do not use the tow/haul feature when driving in icy
or slippery conditions as the increased engine braking can cause
the rear wheels to slide and the vehicle to swing around with the
possible loss of vehicle control.

TOW HAUL:
Tow/haul delays upshifts to reduce frequency of transmission shifting.
Tow/haul also provides engine braking in all forward gears when the
transmission is in the D (Overdrive) position; this engine braking will
slow the vehicle and assist the driver in controlling the vehicle when
descending a grade. Depending on driving conditions and load conditions,
the transmission may downshift, slow the vehicle and control the vehicle
speed when descending a hill, without the pedals being pressed.
The amount of downshift braking provided will vary based upon the
amount the pedal is depressed.


Tow/haul may be automatically activated (without pressing the tow/haul
button). This provides engine braking to assist the vehicles braking
system when going downhill and repetitive braking is sensed. Once the
tow/haul mode has been automatically activated it will not automatically
deactivate (didn't know that - I learned something today !)

[atom ant]

John,

Excellent info!

That said, it may be a bit dated - it discusses a 5-speed transmission, and these have been 6-speed since 2010 anyway.

The "Tow Command" and "Integrated Brake Controller" have been around since around 2004. I've had it on my 2006, 2008, and now this one and other than the transmission is now a selectable 6 speed, the automatic downshift has always been the same.

If that is what Ford means by Engine Braking, that's been around since the Model A. If that is what Ford means by "Integrated Engine Braking" then that make sense as it just means the transmission will downshift to take advantage of engine braking for you, in case you forget how to do it with the shifter from the old days.

Kind of disappointing really.

[travelin' texans]

My GMC also makes the same cool noise as Homeguy, kinda sounds like a Jake Brake & works fantastic with the push of a button anytime in any gear not just tow haul.