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Old 08-03-2014, 04:01 PM   #1
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Chevy 2500 Duramax too small for Redwood

Hello everyone, my wife and I have been looking at Redwoods for quite some time, and really like the 38BR model, you can't beat the quality of a RW and that they are more suitable for full timing. We are full timers right because I travel a lot for work. For now it is just her and I and the dog, but would plan on having kids in the future and would use the BR for a baby.

So my questions is, are people using 3/4 ton trucks to pull RW's. Almost all RW have a GVRW of 16,500, and just wondering how many people are using 3/4 tons to pull around these big beasts.

Side note I plan on putting air bags, air hitch on trailer, and already have banks six gun power system installed.

Any input is much appreciated
Joey
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:03 PM   #2
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Not enough truck Joe. You will be way over payload capacity of that 3/4. Airbags may put the headlights back on the street, but they don't change payload.
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:22 PM   #3
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Joe,
I had a 2012 Ford F350 SRW. It didn't have the payload to do the job. Although a 350 DRW would work, I opted for an F450. It has a much shorter turning radius.

Ken
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:42 PM   #4
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The hitch weight on this model is only 2665, and payload on my truck as far as I can find is 3433 according to NADA guides, and trailer life towing guide says that my truck can pulls 15,400 (2004 chevy duramax SB ext cab). I am torn because I've only had the truck about 6 months and its a good truck with less the 100k miles. Trying to do my research before we make such a big purchase as this trailer.
Thanks again
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:48 PM   #5
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My pin weight was also listed at 2655, but true pin weight is 3400 without water, over 4,300 with. You will be over your payload before you start.

NADA is useless for payload. Use the number printed in the door of your truck. It's based on GVWR, GAWR, and tires. Without water, I put over 7,000 lbs on my rear axle and tires of my old SRW F350, about 1,000 lbs more capacity than you have I believe on your rear axle.

I know you are fishing to maybe hear what you would like to hear, just like I did when we bought the Redwood, but in the end, I was truck shopping within a few months.
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:54 PM   #6
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sticker on door says GVWR 9200lbs, GAWR FRT 4670 lbs, GAWR RR 6084 lbs. Not gonna lie I am a bit lost when it comes to these numbers too. I would've posted pic of door sticker but unsure how to upload.
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:56 PM   #7
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There should be a tire sticker (green yellow) that gives you cargo capacity as well.
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:03 PM   #8
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As discussed with Stoker in another post, with your Duramax/Allison setup you can pull it with NO problems, but as Atom said you will be grossly overloaded with safety for you & others being the biggest concern.
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:32 PM   #9
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Joe,
I had a 2006 Dodge 3/4. With my old rig, I checked the specs of the truck and trailer and thought I was about 300-400 lbs over weight. I stopped at a scale in Oregon and weighed the truck and trailer. Doing some quick math, I figured I was about 2,000 lbs over.

When I got home, I emptied the truck, removed the hitch and headed down to the local scales. According to the specs of the truck, I should have about 2200 lbs of payload capacity. After weighing the truck empty (full tank of fuel), I actually only had about 1700 lbs. After adding my hitch, the weight of my wife and I and some cargo, well, you get the idea. Pin weight on my old rig was about 2800 lbs so I was 1800 lbs over. The trailer weight was 15,000.

Add about 1000 lbs pin weight on my Redwood and 1500 total to the trailer and you have 3800 lbs pin weight and 16500 total. It wasn't close for comfort on my 1 ton.

I know that's not what you want to hear but I hope that helps.

Ken
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:48 PM   #10
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Joe,
I had a 2012 Ford F350 SRW. It didn't have the payload to do the job. Although a 350 DRW would work, I opted for an F450. It has a much shorter turning radius.

Ken
The hitch rating on most RWs is in the 2600lb range. The Ford single wheel I looked at had a payload in the 4 or 5k range, with a total pull in the 16K range. A 1 ton dually is more than enough truck. The payload on my Ram3500 DRW is in the 6k range. Ample for the 2600 lb hitch weight of a RW. My coming 36rl has a dry weight in the 13K range. My truck is rated at 17K pulling range. That being said, to answer the op's question, any 2500 is too small for the heavy RWs.
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:52 PM   #11
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My pin weight was also listed at 2655, but true pin weight is 3400 without water, over 4,300 with. You will be over your payload before you start.

NADA is useless for payload. Use the number printed in the door of your truck. It's based on GVWR, GAWR, and tires. Without water, I put over 7,000 lbs on my rear axle and tires of my old SRW F350, about 1,000 lbs more capacity than you have I believe on your rear axle.

I know you are fishing to maybe hear what you would like to hear, just like I did when we bought the Redwood, but in the end, I was truck shopping within a few months.
As was I. When I bought this CR, I wanted to keep my ram2500, but within 2 months, I had a Ram3500 dually sitting in my driveway. I hated to give up my favorite truck I had ever owned, but reality got the best of me. 3/4s are not enough for these big rigs.
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Old 08-03-2014, 06:38 PM   #12
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In most cases, neither is a 350 SRW. I had a really nice 2012 f350 CCSB that I loved with the max payload 11,500 GVW option. I went the route of airbags, sway bars , etc. in the end, after still being almost 1k over weight on the rear axle and also about 2k over on GCWR, ther is an f350 Dually that does the pulling and I'd never look at anything smaller.

As AA said, forget what is in the brochure on pin weights. Almost all of us with RL'S are in the 3500-3800 lb range.
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:06 PM   #13
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She's a heavy girl... We have only towed about 1000 miles so far, and have already been in situations where we said, "Whew, glad we have the big truck..." It didn't take long. The difference in the quality of the ride is night and day. We used to own a Ford 1T with all the extras: Airbags, Ranchos... etc. They improved the RIDE but did NOT change our tow rating. (We sold that truck before we got the RW to upgrade to a dually). As others have stated (and I can say with authority as we are law enforcement) if you get in an accident EVEN IF you aren't at fault, you may suffer liability because of your reduced capacity to mitigate to react to road conditions. In other words, it is a valid argument that a bigger truck might, for example, be able to stop in an emergency when a lighter one could not. Would you ride with out your seatbelt? Would you drive without insurance? Same thing. Get a bigger truck and smile :-) Then enjoy a beautiful RW!!
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:56 PM   #14
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^Not to mention the quality of ride you get in a dually, over a single wheel. I would have never dreamed a dually would perform, ride wise, this much over a single wheel.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:51 PM   #15
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In most cases, neither is a 350 SRW. I had a really nice 2012 f350 CCSB that I loved with the max payload 11,500 GVW option. I went the route of airbags, sway bars , etc. in the end, after still being almost 1k over weight on the rear axle and also about 2k over on GCWR, ther is an f350 Dually that does the pulling and I'd never look at anything smaller.

As AA said, forget what is in the brochure on pin weights. Almost all of us with RL'S are in the 3500-3800 lb range.
I'm not sure where you got your figures, but here is the Ford figures for you're truck. The 350, single wheel, diesel comes in at about 16200-16700, towing. And, airbags, or any other thing you add, doesn't help your payload rating, short of adding heavier axles.
http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...DtyPUnov17.pdf
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Old 08-03-2014, 11:53 PM   #16
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Jerry,
You're right for the regular cab; Crew cab, 4x4 is 15,900. That is the towing (pulling) capacity. The key stat that is missing is that the GVWR. The F350 SRW is 11,400. Mine empty was 9600. When I weighed the truck and trailer it was 13,360, or 1940 lbs over weight.

As you state, pulling was not the problem, it's the payload capacity (GVWR). The DRW gives the weight load rating needed.

BTW, the GVWR for the F450 is 14,000

Ken
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:10 AM   #17
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Piper's numbers are right as I have the same
GVWR, fgawr, rgawr
11.5k, 5600, 7000... and actual certified weights of
11.9k, 5080, 6840...loaded and hitched
and with a registered weight of 12,500 the state says I am 'legal'

BUT, I don't have a genny, nor diswasher, nor washer/dryer, and I AM the weight police when it's time to load up!
so my numbers are better with only 11k on the trailer wheels and total weight of 22.9k with a GCWR of 23.5K it's all good !

for now, happy with the way it tows the 38gk on the very part-time basis I can tow it...

so there are different scenarios, you just have to KNOW your weights and the only way to know that is to go to a certified scale (which I keep in the truck at all times !) (and I HAVE been on a diet, so take about 20lbs more off !)
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:13 AM   #18
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^So the Ford site numbers are wrong?
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:14 AM   #19
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Jerry,
You're right for the regular cab; Crew cab, 4x4 is 15,900. That is the towing (pulling) capacity. The key stat that is missing is that the GVWR. The F350 SRW is 11,400. Mine empty was 9600. When I weighed the truck and trailer it was 13,360, or 1940 lbs over weight.

As you state, pulling was not the problem, it's the payload capacity (GVWR). The DRW gives the weight load rating needed.

BTW, the GVWR for the F450 is 14,000

Ken
My Dodge dually 1 ton weighs in at 8000. Can the GVWR be less than the towing rating? My dodge is rated at 17k towing, meaning my truck can tow a 17k trailer. That doesn't include the truck weight. I don't think the GVWR is including towing a vehicle.

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The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer[1] including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.[2] The term is used for motor vehicles and trains.

The weight of a vehicle is influenced by passengers, cargo, even fuel level, so a number of terms are used to express the weight of a vehicle in a designated state. Gross combined weight rating refers to the total mass of a vehicle, including all trailers. GVWR and GCWR both describe a vehicle that is in operation and are used to specify weight limitations and restrictions. Curb weight describes a vehicle which is "parked at the curb" and excludes the weight of any occupants or cargo. Dry weight further excludes the weight of all consumables, such as fuel and oils. Gross trailer weight rating specifies the maximum weight of a trailer and the gross axle weight rating specifies the maximum weight on any particular axle
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:18 AM   #20
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^So the Ford site numbers are wrong?
Maybe, or the reference missed something..
lot's of variables - rear end ratio, cab config, options, year, equipment, etc...

Yes, the abbrevs are hard to follow sometimes:
GVWR = Gross Vehicle weight rating
there is one for the truck and one for the rv
my truck is 11.5k, my RW is 16.6k...
but that is not what either weigh,
the truck is more in the 8900 range and the rw 13k or so..

GCWR = Gross Combined Weight Rating
for the truck is 23.5k = this is the total of the trucks weight and the carried/towed rv weight.

my truck loaded with the rv's pin wgt and all I carry IS 400lbs over my trucks gvwr, but that's only when I have everyone and everything and full fuel, etc...
it goes down from there and is only full of fuel for a VERY short time @ 9 mpg

Not trying to justify anything I do, just putting it out there
hope this helps !
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