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Old 04-22-2015, 11:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dave&Ginny View Post
Over the past couple of years helping people resolve issues I have found that the dealerships were usually the problem. Redwood has on the most part stood up and took the heat when it was their turn. However the dealerships were usually blaming Redwood for issues that should have been pointed back to them. For example, we had someone a couple of years ago stating that the dealership was blaming Redwood for not shipping parts. After talking with some of my sources, it was discovered that the dealership had just sent in the order that day (a few months late). So it wasn't Redwood's fault at all.

Yale, this sounds like something that should be able to be resolved. Now that Jeff is getting involved I'm sure it will be worked out.

Good luck
Redwood has the records and dates for service request dating back to delivery. I personally know when the trailer was worked on by the FP DW service tech and also the time Onan service has checked current output and specs on the gen set. The Dealer has went above and beyond only to get a cold shoulder from Mr. Antal at Redwood Service. I have heard Redwoods Position with my own ears so I know the dealer in this case is not the problem.
I sincerely hope the Jeff can get this corrected in short order and I hope that there will be a production change to correct the issue going forward for future customers. I sure would like to get it back and use this thing... tis the season!
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Old 04-23-2015, 12:00 AM   #12
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Yale,
I'm chatting with another owner that says they have the same issue, and they want to know if you ever tried running the dishwasher while the generator was already under load such at the AC or something? Theirs sometimes works that way.

Not that it is a fix, they were just curious. They also have been trying to diagnose what the issue is.
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:15 AM   #13
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Have you ever heard of this?
Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding | No~Shock~Zone
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:46 AM   #14
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I am writing this post, NOT as an electrician (as I am not!) but to give you perhaps something to check into. I do boondock, using 1 or 2 Honda 2000's. Both the dishwasher and splendide washer/dryer will not run with the companion of the 2 Honda's. The splendide will start/stop every few seconds. The dishwasher will throw a code and act as unhappy as the splendide.

The problem is that the Honda's have a floating ground. Both of these appliances expect a positive, neutral and ground. Absent the real ground, they don't work.

The solution for the Honda's is to make an NG plug. A simple three prong plug, inserted in the Honda with the neutral and ground tied together (thus the NG or neutral ground bonded) solves the problem. It gives both the appliances the appearance of a ground when in fact, no earth ground exists.

I have read that typically the Onan does not have this problem as it is grounded to the chassis, where the Honda has no such ground. The Onan should work as Brad has described. It seems to me that you might have a grounding problem that is causing your dishwasher havoc running off the Onan. You might have them double check the ground....it sure is a problem for portables!

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Old 04-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #15
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http://www.redwoodowners.com/forums/...sher-1341.html we have had the same issue with the dishwasher not running on the genny.. Once we had the genny PROPERLY serviced and set up.. all is good
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Old 04-23-2015, 08:07 PM   #16
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I'm Mike Sokol from the No~Shock~Zone. A link to my article about properly neutral bonding a portable generator was posted above and here: Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding | No~Shock~Zone

I've written on hundreds of similar forums about the problem of using a Honda or Yamaha Inverter generator to power an RV. And my article details a simple $2 fix for this. I've just contacted Redwood's customer service department about this, and they've already responded and will review the details.

In the meantime all of this electrical information as well as RV hot-skin testing and lot more is covered in my recent No~Shock~Zone book about RV Electrical Safety. Don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to it here without violating forum rules, so can the moderator please contact me about how to proceed.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:47 AM   #17
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http://www.redwoodowners.com/forums/...sher-1341.html we have had the same issue with the dishwasher not running on the genny.. Once we had the genny PROPERLY serviced and set up.. all is good
Thanks for the help!
I assure you this gen set has been checked as well as grounding a polarity by the Onan Service center and distributor and is all good. I have head of the load thing and the dealer is going to test this to see if load helps. The problem is how do you maintain an extra constant load for the hour and a half plus it takes to run a cycle?
I really don't think this is a fix but it might shed light on the real cause. The dealer feels that running it through an inverter thus giving a constant load and voltage is the answer but at this Point Redwood is not willing to go that rout.
I'm willing to give the dealer and Redwood with Jeffs help a little more time to find me a solution. The sad part is as I read this there are others experiencing the same issue, seems Redwood would want people's RV's to work properly and serve them trouble free, clearly this is an issue that needs addressed.
Thanks All I'll keep you posted!
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:55 AM   #18
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It just doesn't make sense that yours would need an inverter, when others do not.
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Old 04-24-2015, 01:09 PM   #19
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It just doesn't make sense that yours would need an inverter, when others do not.
I'm Mike Sokol from the No~Shock~Zone. Thanks for posting the link to my article about generator G-N bonding.

Seems like grasping at straws. The small Honda and Yamaha generators we typically use are "inverter" generators. That is, they're actually high-quality inverters powered by a DC generator and gasoline engine rather than a battery. That's why their outputs are so stable...

I've contacted the Redwood dealer service department about this problem and they've responded back to me already. I've seen these types of failures hundreds of times, and it's nearly always a floating neutral generator creating an open ground fault shutdown in a piece of equipment that has EGC ground monitoring. I'll bet that's what's happening in this case. Has anyone set up a test with this brand and model of refrigerator to see what happens when the shore power's EGC safety ground opens up?
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Old 04-24-2015, 02:41 PM   #20
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The problem is that the Honda's have a floating ground. Both of these appliances expect a positive, neutral and ground. Absent the real ground, they don't work.
While you're conceptually right, I'm going to take the liberty of correcting the wording so that EE's, electricians, and technicians are all using the same language. Please don't take offense, as the misuse of the word "ground" is pervasive in the industry.

The confusion starts with the fact that everybody uses the word "ground" to describe a bunch of different things, many of which are not really earth ground. So in your RV's electrical system you're going to have at least one Line (hot), a Neutral (return), and an EGC Ground (Equipment Grounding Conductor). In the RV's electrical system the Ground and Neutral must maintain separation so as to prevent intermingling the neutral current with any Ground Fault currents that might occur. However, the same Neutral and Ground should be "bonded" together by whatever pedestal, home outlet, or generator they're plugged into. Not that no actual "earth ground" is required for this. What you're really creating is something we call a "ground plane" or "local ground" that is typically isolated from the actual earth.

If you have an on-board generator such as an Onan, then there will be a transfer switch that bonds the neutral and ground bus together while running on generator power, but un-bonds the neutral and ground bus for shore power. This all works well, as long as you're plugging your shore power connector into a pedestal or home outlet that has its own Ground-Neutral bond (in addition to an earth ground rod). However, if you plug your shore power connection into a floating neutral generator, the transfer switch is still set to shore power and expecting a G-N bond externally. All small Honda and Yamaha inverter generators have a floating neutral, which is what causes any ground monitoring electronics to report an open ground and shut down. I suspect that your refrigerator are doing exactly that.

You probably just need to provide an external G-N bond at the generator, which I show as a regular 15-amp Edison plug with the Ground and Neutral screws bonded by a jumper wire. This is a very common issue with Progressive Industries EMS surge protectors. And they're going to sell a prewired G-N bonding plug per my article.

Please let me know if this clarifies the situation a bit.
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