electrical question

marandjwr · 09-28-2013, 09:42 AM

we have a surge protector at the pole with digital readout that shows line 1 and line 2 available voltage and what I assume is amps drawn. If this is correct, what systems in the coach are drawing amps from line 1 and what is being drawn on line 2... line 1 is always showing in the 4 amp range sometimes more depending on what's running inside... line 2 shows 0. Any electrical engineers out there who can explain?

rcflame · 09-28-2013, 10:40 AM

I am not an electrical engineer, but my perspective is about the only way to determine what is on line 1 and line 2 would be to get into your breaker box in the trailer and see which breaker is hooked up on line 1 and line 2, or use power from a circuit, check what the amperage draw is on your 2 lines, discontinue drawing power from that circuit or shut off the breaker, and see which line is drawing fewer amps than before. As long as I am not having problems, I am not too concerned about it.Edited by: rcflame

marandjwr · 09-28-2013, 01:28 PM

your suggestion is helpful except that one of the reasons for my question/concern is that we have had problems... surge protector at the pole shows both lines are within limits on voltage BUT the voltmeter within the camper has fluctuated and caused microwave damage. Investigating cause we tightened a loose screw on the shore cord and had no incidents until last week when out of the blue it happened again... erratic voltage on inside digital voltmeter in the coach and steady normal at the pole followed by "open neutral" indicator light inside and then no power at all for 15-30 minutes... I don't know if there is anything wrong but I want to make sure of that... I don't recall, before this last episode, that line 2 had previously read 0 amp draw on line 2 but I didn't think it did which makes me wonder what else was damaged by the recent power surge inside the camper.

rcflame · 09-28-2013, 02:02 PM

If your surge protector on the post doesn't show any error code it must be a problem in the trailer. I would get a plug in circuit tester and start checking the individual circuits to see if there is an open neutral, ground or some other problem.

Willranless · 09-28-2013, 11:24 PM

Problems like you are describing are often found to be caused by a loose neutral. Power surges on part of the circuits, low voltage on others, damaged equipment etc. I would recommend a thorough inspection of the electrical system until the loose wire is found. Problems like this rarely fix themselves permanently, but they can come and go until the connection burns out completely.

marandjwr · 09-29-2013, 06:35 PM

yes, as we have found out... this is why, rcflame, I don't believe nothing is wrong once something has been wrong but no longer is

How does one post pics? and I'll show ya

also, where the heck would I begin looking? and do I have to tear the underbelly out to do this? It's so intermittent!

atom ant · 09-29-2013, 06:40 PM

no-no - you don't have to tear down the belly. All terminations are in accessible places. Start at the rear plug, move to the generator transfer switch and main panel, the start working the branch circuits. While at the panel, check all of the terminal screws on the neutral bar, ground bar, and every breaker. Huge trouble point on some brands.

marandjwr · 09-29-2013, 07:09 PM

had already, months ago, tightened screws on shore cord and thought that was the original problem... have also previously gone through the breaker box and gen switch... looks like all of the 110 outlets are next... the pics I was going to post are of the shore cord burned/melted on male and female ground terminal

5th_Time · 09-29-2013, 07:45 PM

Isn't your question is what is drawing on line 1 and what is on line2? My impression is that all devices draw on line 1, and only the 2nd AC runs off line 2.

marandjwr · 09-29-2013, 08:23 PM

it was... originally... then I began to investigate and found the burned shore cord end at the camper.
thanks.

rcflame · 09-30-2013, 11:02 AM

5th time, That is not true, line 1 and line 2 are exactly the same as far as capacity etc., they split up the circuits between the two. If one of the lines carried everything but the 2nd a/c, it could overload and trip when you had several high draw devices running at the same time. They may not be split evenly as far as load, but should be somewhat close.

Norskeman · 09-30-2013, 11:17 AM

I installeda Progressive Industries Model EMS-HW50C surge protector with remote indicator in our fifth wheel. I assume your unit has 50 amp service. The cable has 3 conductors and a ground. Two of the conductor are "hot " and one is a common. Each of the conductors (L1 - T1, L3 - T3 goes through a current transformer (green and black donuts - black and red wires in the picture) in the surge protector.



The digital display will read L-1, and then give you a three
digit number which is your Line 1 voltage, then
0 to 35 A which is Line 1 current (amps). Then L-2 and a three digit
number which is Line 2 voltage, then 0
to 35 A which is Line 2 current (amps). Next you will notice 60H and this is
your line frequency.

Lastly, you will notice the E code. E-0 is normal and only
if E-0 or E-10 is present will the delay light flash and allow power to the RV.
Refer to your Error Code chart that was provided or see Error Code chart for
further details.

The display will only read voltages between approximately 78
volts and 255 volts. Also, if power is
below 104 volts or above 132 volts the EMS will not turn on.

E-0 Normal Condition

E-1 Reverse Polarity Condition (hot and neutral wires
reversed)

E-2 Open Ground

E-3 Line 1 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)

E-4 Line 1 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)

E-5 Line 2 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)

E-6 Line 2 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)

E-7 Line Frequency High (Line frequency above 69 cycles per
second)

E-8 Line Frequency Low (Line frequency below 51 cycles per
second)

E-9 Data Link Down

E-10 Replace Surge Protector Module

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On our unit with minimal load - 1-4 amps L1 and 0 amps L2. The current on L1 is the Convertor/charger. As I turn on more appliances (frig, AC, HW heater, etc) I can see the current go up on L1 and L2.

Remote Indicator:

Picture before I installed the cover

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Edited by: Norskeman

5th_Time · 09-30-2013, 11:24 AM

Roger, With 50A, Line 1 and Line 2 are both 110v legs (50A).Â* With 30A, you only have 1 110v leg (30A).Â* When you use an adapter and plug into a 30A service, you only have the one 110vÂ*leg as Line 1.Â* Is this not correct?Â*

Â*
P.S. Bob, I have been meaning to install the same surge in my unit.Â* I thought I would be mounting it on the back of the battery compartment wall.Â* But seeing your pic reminds me that it can be installed in the basement before the breaker box.Â* On an RL, this makes mounting the Progressive monitor unit in the closet next to the monitor panel much easier - instead of running that cable from the closet to the battery compartment too. Edited by: 5th_Time

Norskeman · 09-30-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5th_Time

Roger, With 50A, Line 1 and line 2 are both 110v legs (50A). With 30A, you only have 1 110v leg (30A). When you use an adapter and plug into a 30A service, you one have the one 110vleg as Line 1. Is this not correct?

P.S. Bob, I have been meaning to install the same surge in my unit. I thought I would be mounting it on the back of the battery compartment wall. But seeing your pic reminds me that it can be installed in the basement before the breaker box. On an RL, this makes mounting the Progressive monitor unit in the closet next to the monitor panel much easier - instead of running that cable from the closet to the battery compartment too.

I don't own a Redwood but I joined the forum to get info on additional CrossRoads products.


CrossRoads product - 2012 Cruiser Patriot CF335SSfifth wheel.Tow vehicle - 2011
Chevy Silverado 3500HD LTZ CCLB LML SRW 4X4 <!--if gte mso 9>
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Mods to date:

Progressive Industries Model EMS-HW50C surge protector, Kurt 13703 adjustable RV hitch, Wet bolt kit, Additional vent fan for refrigerator, 2nd battery with dual battery box, TV in bedroom, â€œBlack wallâ€ covering mod kitchen and bedroom, Clothes line mount on rear bumper, Storage compartment wall mod, Adjustable thermostat on the HW heater, JTâ€™s Strong Arm Jack Stabilizers, MaxxAir II Vent Cover â€“ bed room and bath room



Installing it behind the breaker panel made for an easier installation. I had plenty of cable length from the original feed to the breaker panel - I did not cut off any excess. I modified the compartment storage wall - cut it in half and added a center support. This made reassembly easier and will make it easier to access the two areas in the future. On the other side of the area is the charger convertor, HW heater and furnace. As you can see I had plenty of room for the installation.

Edited by: Norskeman

5th_Time · 09-30-2013, 12:09 PM

The problem with cutting it in half will be if there is not enough length when you remove it and someday reinstall install it in your new Redwood! Looks like you could just add a junction box though.

atom ant · 09-30-2013, 03:21 PM

Michael,

Have you looked at putting it by the gen prep and just intercept it there, or do you not have the gen prep?

marandjwr · 09-30-2013, 03:59 PM

we have never gotten an open neutral indication from the surge protector it'self... only the open neutral indicator light on our in the coach plug into 110 digital volt meter shows and open neutral... intermittently. This is why we assume the problem is in the RW wiring somewhere.

KenM · 09-30-2013, 04:53 PM

The best way to troubleshoot this kind of issue is start at the power source and work you way back and check every connection starting at the utility power and check every connection along the way.

Also make the the power cord in twisted in all the way and the lock ring is tight.

atom ant · 09-30-2013, 06:49 PM

and check each outlet. I haven't looked at the RW outlets but the typical RV devices use a push in connector like the telephone, ethernet system, and loss of a neutral or hot would be extremely easy out of that spade.

5th_Time · 09-30-2013, 08:59 PM

Brad, I have the factory Onan and have done some work up there when I spliced in a 50A female outlet to connect the Onan to my house for power failures. I really had to snake my body around until I could sit on the battery boxes to work. Boy, it's tight getting up there!

Now that I think about it, don't they recommend that you install the surge between the shore power and the transfer switch so that it's not downstream of the generator? That would dictate your solution. Thanks for the photo.

Seems like the beauty of putting the Progressive behind the basement wall before the breaker box is not having to snake the surge monitor cable through the basement ceiling back to the unit.Edited by: 5th_Time

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