Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-18-2017, 05:41 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
xtasee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 451
Internal Brake Controller again

I purchased a new 2017 Silverado 3500 with the internal brake controller and factory puck system including factory wiring.

According to the GM owners manual for 2017, the brake controller is compatible with "most" systems including electric over hydraulic. I have the Redwood factory disc brakes on the trailer and it came with a Carlisle pump and Cam module. Works great on the 2010 truck.

I get the "Check Trailer Wiring" message and no brakes. The truck works fine with electric drum brakes.

I talked to Ron yesterday who spent a ton of time with me (what a nice guy) and he said the cam module needs to be out of the system. This makes sense since the new GM systems are supposed to be compatible with both types of brakes. I also took the truck to the dealership where it set a code but the documentation points to a trailer issue....

I am sure there is someone here who owns a new 2017 GM with Disc brakes. if so, did you have to do something special to make the system work?

I am unable to move the trailer and tech support folks do not work the weekends. Very frustrating...

For you who understand the system, I get the approx 1v on the blue wire but I believe that the controller is looking for a compatible system connected before it will send more voltage with moving the manual switch. Therefore I get no "extra" voltage down the blue wire when sliding the switch.
__________________
Larry, Stephanie Park City, Utah
2017 31SL King, 8K axles, Disc Brakes,17.5 Goodyear H tires,BU Camera,5.5 Onan, Heated HT pads, Two Uniguard Awnings, Slide Toppers, 2000w PSW inverter
xtasee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2017, 09:10 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Rick and Mindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,396
I may be wrong, but it seems to me not too long ago this issue came up and it seems like they found out that you had to have the transmission in drive before the internal controller worked properly or you had to be moving. It seemed weird to me but apparently that's how it works. Did you try moving the rig? Do you have the computer set to electric over hydraulic?
__________________
Rick and Mindy
Retired
2013 Redwood 31SL, 2011 Ford F350 SRW, 6.7, Crew Cab with Firestone Bags, Titan Disc Brakes
Rick and Mindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2017, 10:20 PM   #3
Member
 
boatguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 30
Hi. I just purchased a new 2018 39MB. I also purchased a new 3500 HD Denali edition. It came equipped with the factory gooseneck package, pucks and an in bed 7 pin. I used the bumper 7 pin to pull my 20 foot snowmobile trailer and it worked flawlessly on the electric brakes twice then kicked up a "trailer wiring problem" on the DIC. Before going to pick up my Redwood last week I took it to the GM dealer who tested it and replaced the bed plug which I had never used. They said it was dead. Fast forward to Friday, I brought the Redwood home from the dealership, about an hour drive. I am a fifth wheel virgin but have towed plenty of boats and snowmobiles up to 40 feet. All had electric brakes. I spent the whole trip home trying to adjust the gain on the internal brake controller. Basically if I activated the brake at all a millisecond delay and the hydraulics on the trailer activated locking or almost locking up every time. Changing the gain only adjusted when it would lock up. Nothing seemed to change the amount of brake applied to the trailer. Its either full on or full off. I spoke to the trailer dealer because I know the driver who picked it up in Indiana and drove it here could not have made it without noticing. I'm stuck thinking it must be something in my truck. I am going to take it back and have the dealer check it out late next week but in the meantime I have a few things I want to try. I will try and pull it off the bumper plug instead of the bed plug and see if that makes a different. I have a 12 volt mechanic that specializes in all things 12 volt who is going to put a test plug in and check voltage to make sure that when I brake its sending out variable voltage. After that I will hit the dealership to find out.

Im just settling in to a Fathers Day afternoon of reading my new truck manuals and see if I can uncover anything. If it helps pulling was a breeze its just slowing down that I didn't like.
boatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2017, 10:51 PM   #4
Member
 
boatguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 30
Well the owners manual for the truck didn't shed any light. There was no info on changing anything for hydraulic or electric. I went back through some great posts and I may need something called a Cam. Like I said earlier gain from 9.0 to 1.5 and the trailer brakes react the same (either lock up or nearly lock up). I'm desperately hoping either Titan Guy or MHS4771 chime in. I should mention its a factory installed Hydrastar actuator and my Denali does show trailer connected.

Thanks for any help
boatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 12:35 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
xtasee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 451
Boatguy,

Mine is also the factory hydrastar and has the error message. Yours shows "trailer connected"? Ron says the Cam should not be in the system for the new truck...
__________________
Larry, Stephanie Park City, Utah
2017 31SL King, 8K axles, Disc Brakes,17.5 Goodyear H tires,BU Camera,5.5 Onan, Heated HT pads, Two Uniguard Awnings, Slide Toppers, 2000w PSW inverter
xtasee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 12:38 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
xtasee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 451
Rick,

I think the moving truck issue is related to the brake pedal not the manual override on the controller. Also should get "trailer connected" message and a colored gain gauge on the DIC.

I am not aware of a setting to program on GM for the type of brake.
__________________
Larry, Stephanie Park City, Utah
2017 31SL King, 8K axles, Disc Brakes,17.5 Goodyear H tires,BU Camera,5.5 Onan, Heated HT pads, Two Uniguard Awnings, Slide Toppers, 2000w PSW inverter
xtasee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 01:38 AM   #7
Member
 
boatguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 30
Yes. I do get trailer connected. I also get the gain display. The issue for me is whether the gain is at 2 or 9. Pressing the pedal engages the brakes at maximum or near maximum. If I apply the brakes even lightly for three seconds with the gain at anything greater than 0 it will stop the vehicle abruptly. Electric brakes let me use the gain to match the stopping power of the trailer with the truck, adjusting for weight.
boatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 02:23 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
xtasee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 451
You are further ahead than me. I just spent another 2 hrs after the several hours yesterday and still get "Check Trailer Wiring". I have the HBA-16 pump and a HBA-CAM. I have tried it both with the CAM hooked up and disconnected.

Your issue sounds like the gain is not correct in the truck. Could be the brake module or the switch. The dealer may have to look at that one...
__________________
Larry, Stephanie Park City, Utah
2017 31SL King, 8K axles, Disc Brakes,17.5 Goodyear H tires,BU Camera,5.5 Onan, Heated HT pads, Two Uniguard Awnings, Slide Toppers, 2000w PSW inverter
xtasee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 09:32 PM   #9
Site Team
 
piper guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,802
I hate to say this ............. but I'm really liking my Ford. Seems to me GM has been dealing with this issue with Disc Brake controllers for a few years now.


And so that you know, I was a GM person for 40 years before my F350 Dually and probably would have remained one except both the GMC and Chevy dealer tried to steal my exceptionally nice '06 Denali. I think its really inexcusable that they can't make their factory controller compatible.
__________________
Vaughan & Tracy 2013 RW 36RL, 2013 F350 DRW CC, 2016 Focus. MorRyde IS, MorRyde pinbox, disc brakes, Comfort Ride Hitch. "Life is to be embraced, Grab it with both arms ! "
piper guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 12:13 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
xtasee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by piper guy View Post
I hate to say this ............. but I'm really liking my Ford. Seems to me GM has been dealing with this issue with Disc Brake controllers for a few years now.


And so that you know, I was a GM person for 40 years before my F350 Dually and probably would have remained one except both the GMC and Chevy dealer tried to steal my exceptionally nice '06 Denali. I think its really inexcusable that they can't make their factory controller compatible.
Vaughn,

I believe that I have found the issue and it appears to be Redwoods hacking together the wiring! GM's controller by sensing the wiring problem could have saved lives. Boo on me for not knowing that I had no break-away brakes either.

Seems that Redwood did not have a wire for the break-away switch separately run from the pin junction box so they just tied the yellow wire for the break-away to the blue wire for the controller. This was done at the factory at the brake module in the battery compartment.

I fixed the brake issue by separating the yellow and blue wires at the pump but now need to fish a wire from the junction box (hooked to the cold side of the break-away switch) down to the yellow wire on the brake pump module.

BTW GM's new internal controllers are now compatible with either electric or electric over hydraulic without the need for the CAM module. You are correct that the older ones had to be "tricked".

This should be a warranty issue not to mention the safety issue but it will be much faster for me to deal with it on my own.

On another subject, how many flight hours did you log last year?
__________________
Larry, Stephanie Park City, Utah
2017 31SL King, 8K axles, Disc Brakes,17.5 Goodyear H tires,BU Camera,5.5 Onan, Heated HT pads, Two Uniguard Awnings, Slide Toppers, 2000w PSW inverter
xtasee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 01:23 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
MuddFlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 102
I got the Redwood factory disc brakes, hydrastar actuator with Kodiak brakes. Redwood also installed the hba-cam. My trailer brakes also hesitate for about 4-5 seconds then activate quite forcefully. I'm gonna bypass the hba-cam and see if there's any improvement.
__________________
2018 Redwood 3901WB Autumn Fire
3 A/C, Heat Pump, Dishwasher, Washer/Dryer, Disc Brakes, Onan 5.5kw

2017 Ram Longhorn 3500 Cummings/Aisin DRW LB CC and a cute little aftermarket fuel cap
MuddFlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 01:27 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
mhs4771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,357
Maybe that's why the Amish light their homes with Gas Lamps, they're not good with electricity.
Any way, glad to hear it's not a GM problem as I really thinking hard about replacing my 2011 in the fall with a 2018.
__________________
Michelle & Ann
2018 Chevy 3500HD Crew Cab High Country DRW, D/A, 2016 RW39MB, Dual ACs, Auto Level, Auto Sat Dish, Stack W/D, King Sleep #, 17.5" Sailuns w/Disc, MORryde IS & Pin, Comfort Ride Hitch, 5.5 Onan, Res Fridge & Induction Cook Top
mhs4771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 02:58 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
atom ant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,101
Our Redwood failed the brake test off the Dealer lot - nothing.... They started to blame the Ford but after driving away with my pickup to the airport and flying back home to Denver they called a week later and said Redwood had jacked the wiring up at the pinbox and it destroyed the Carlisle. It was Dealers lips moving, but we went back to get it and hooked up the Ford and they worked perfectly so I'm inclined to believe them.
__________________
Brad & Dory - Lone Tree, CO
CURRENT - 2013 Itasca Meridian 42E/2013 Wrangler 4dr Sahara
SOLD - 2014 Redwood 36RL/2014 F350 DRW
atom ant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 04:05 AM   #14
Member
 
boatguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 30
So the brake saga continues... MuddFlap it would appear as though we have the same problem. Today I called Hydrator and spoke to Tye. He confirmed that it was not supposed to act this way. The gain reading on my truck should increase as I lean on the brake, and it is not. We confirmed I have an HBA CAM installed. Confirmed again that when it was delivered by a Dodge from Indiana to Ontario the brakes operated as expected. Tomorrow morning we begin by checking voltages from the pin adapter, will also hook up and pull the 20' snowmobile trailer to confirm that my controller is working. Then I suppose we will try and disconnect the HBA CAM. This is really all that is keeping me from enjoying the trailer.

BTW, the dealer has been very supportive and said bring it back and they would work on it but it really seems the be an issue between the trailer and my new GM.
__________________
2017 GMC 3500HD Denali DRW pulling a
2018 RW3901MB, Disc Brakes, Dual ACs, Auto Sat Dish,
Stack W/D, 5500 Onan, Andersen Ultimate Hitch, 400 Watts of Solar fun!
boatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 02:38 PM   #15
Site Team
 
piper guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,802
Larry - thanks for asking about the flying - I'm really not current anymore since selling the Arrow but the itch is occurring again.
I've been thinking of getting my tail dragger endorsement and up here in NY I have access to a Rans S7S (kind of an experimental Cub looking tandem high wing). Might be a fun thing to fly with the doors open and a cruise of 65 mph !!
__________________
Vaughan & Tracy 2013 RW 36RL, 2013 F350 DRW CC, 2016 Focus. MorRyde IS, MorRyde pinbox, disc brakes, Comfort Ride Hitch. "Life is to be embraced, Grab it with both arms ! "
piper guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 03:09 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
xtasee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 451
Update:

I was able to get everything sorted out last night without running another wire. Redwood had the wires screwed up both in the pin box and at the Hydrastar.

Thank you again Ron for sending me the wiring schematic!
__________________
Larry, Stephanie Park City, Utah
2017 31SL King, 8K axles, Disc Brakes,17.5 Goodyear H tires,BU Camera,5.5 Onan, Heated HT pads, Two Uniguard Awnings, Slide Toppers, 2000w PSW inverter
xtasee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 03:39 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
MuddFlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 102
Ron or Larry, could I get a copy of that wiring diagram also please?
epdelay@yahoo.com

Thanks!
__________________
2018 Redwood 3901WB Autumn Fire
3 A/C, Heat Pump, Dishwasher, Washer/Dryer, Disc Brakes, Onan 5.5kw

2017 Ram Longhorn 3500 Cummings/Aisin DRW LB CC and a cute little aftermarket fuel cap
MuddFlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 03:57 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 392
So disheartening that as owners we have to experience needless issues like this! Time, effort, and money wasted...not to mention the frustration involved. Wonder how the transporter delivered it to the dealership...no brakes? Did he/she mention it to anyone? Where's the pride, or even common sense, that goes with the job?

Bob
__________________
Bob and Debbie (both retired) with Senior FurBabies Grizz (a German Shepherd mix) and Bailey (a Lab mix)...and sometimes a Grandkiddo or 2! Full Time RVers since July 2013 Redwood: 2012 36FL with sliding patio doors
Tow Vehicle: 2011 Chevy Silverado 3500 HD with 6.6 DuraMax Dually
Grizzby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2017, 06:43 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
xtasee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddFlap View Post
Ron or Larry, could I get a copy of that wiring diagram also please?
epdelay@yahoo.com

Thanks!
I forwarded the wiring diagram's to you.
__________________
Larry, Stephanie Park City, Utah
2017 31SL King, 8K axles, Disc Brakes,17.5 Goodyear H tires,BU Camera,5.5 Onan, Heated HT pads, Two Uniguard Awnings, Slide Toppers, 2000w PSW inverter
xtasee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2017, 05:14 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
MuddFlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 102
Thanks Larry!


I checked the wiring for the brake controller and everything appears to be installed correctly. I also called Hydrastar today and spoke to Tye. He said that I should hitch up the RV, have someone depress the TV brake pedal and listen for the actuator pump. If the pump starts immediately when the brake pedal is pressed then my issue is likely air in the brake lines. So tomorrow AM I'm gonna bleed the brakes and see what happens. Tye also said that for my truck it doesn't matter if the HBA-CAM is installed or not.


As a side note I picked up my truck from the dealership today and it just so happened that an RV transport person was dropping off their 2017 Ram 3500. I questioned the driver about towing RV's with disc brakes and she said that she has towed a number of them and never has had any kind of issue. So hopefully it's not the truck!
__________________
2018 Redwood 3901WB Autumn Fire
3 A/C, Heat Pump, Dishwasher, Washer/Dryer, Disc Brakes, Onan 5.5kw

2017 Ram Longhorn 3500 Cummings/Aisin DRW LB CC and a cute little aftermarket fuel cap
MuddFlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Redwood RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×