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Old 11-16-2015, 12:12 AM   #1
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tire and wheel information

Taking 4 to 6 trips a year and not being full timers we wanted the best RV we could get for that purpose. The 31SL model Redwood appeared to suit that need. It's 34'8" length is built with the same undercarriage as the larger models so we thought it was "overbuilt." After two years of travel and about 7,000 miles we had two tires fail (on two different trips). So we upgraded to g rated tires all around. This past summer, on a trip to Jasper Park, Canada. We had a wheel fail (developed an internal hole so the tire would not hold air). Using the spare in order to get to Calgary, Canada the tire dealer there discovered one of the other wheels had cracked all the way through the spoke. We purchased two steel wheels and continued home to San Diego.

I phoned Redwood customer service and talked to someone for advise on what to do. I felt I had just woken that person from his nap and when asking for advise he said he'd never heard anything like my story and could offer NO advise.

Purpose of this dialog is just to advise. Chinese made tires and aluminum wheels on Redwood are not the greatest and Redwood customer service is terrible.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:59 AM   #2
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Wheels

I upgraded to the G614 about 1 1/2 years ago. I was told to upgraded to a heavier wheel at same time to support the 110 psi tire pressure. I did this at the cost of $1800 for new wheels and new Goodyear G614 tires. I have 10000+ miles with no problems. I don't see a lot of tire wear when I inspect them periodically. I have confidence in these tires and wheels. I have hit a few places in our great USA road system that should have blown them all out at once but we made it home safely.

Joel and Janis
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:02 AM   #3
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We've never had an alumunim wheel failure; however, had three blowouts with "E" rated tires on a cross country trip. Upgraded to "G" rated tires and have had no issues in over 10K miles. I believe all newer models come with "G" load rating tires.

Bob
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:21 AM   #4
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Bruce, I don't think that wheel failure is that common. I've only heard of it once before on the forum. Tire failure of the ST tires is common as mud.

Do you know which wheel you had?
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:40 AM   #5
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As soon as we took delivery and reading this forum for days....off came the "E's" and on went the Goodyear G rated tires. Ours came with the heavier 110psi rims so we were good there but still hard to spend another $1,500 after you just purchased a new RW. Many more upgrade along the way as we learn.

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Old 11-16-2015, 02:16 AM   #6
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We actually had a Bad Rim on our MB when we picked it up. Bypassed Lazydays and RW and got a Warranty replacement direct from the Wheel Distributor. Once the tire was removed from the defective rim, you could see where they had tried to patch it at the Factory in China, but didn't make it.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:43 AM   #7
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We had 3 Rims Crack (made by Sendel in China) on our Previous SOB 5th Wheel.
They reimbursed me for purchase of what I thought was better rims from High Spec Wheel.
Failed one of the new High Spec Brand rims west of Phoenix, supplier shipped a new rim to us with an return label.
Did not have any more failures after that prior to trading for our Redwood.
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:00 AM   #8
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Bruce, is it possible that you installed G rated tires on rims that were not rated for 110 psi. Rims separating like that sounds like the rims were not rated for that much psi. The rating is stamped on the rim. As far as customer service, they have always been supportive and very helpful.
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:18 AM   #9
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I upgraded to the g tires and heavier duty rims a few years ago. I have around 20k on them and no issues.

What tires/rims do you have on your 31sl?
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:18 AM   #10
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I upgraded to the g tires and heavier duty rims a few years ago. I have around 20k on them and no issues.

What tires/rims do you have on your 31sl?
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Old 11-16-2015, 06:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired educators View Post
Bruce, is it possible that you installed G rated tires on rims that were not rated for 110 psi. Rims separating like that sounds like the rims were not rated for that much psi. The rating is stamped on the rim. As far as customer service, they have always been supportive and very helpful.
As I understand from the NTSB from a ccomplaint I had with Montana labeling wheels, there is no destructive testing for wheels - just a spec. Load capacity is based on the size and number of lugs, and the tire size it is intended to be used for. Pressure is not a factor in the spec.

With that, adding Gs to your Redwood wheels that had Es shouldn't impact the wheel at all, unless you start increasing your weight on the wheels because you have a new load capacity with the tires.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:31 PM   #12
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I don't know what NTSB does or doesn't do but Titan makes thousands of wheels every year and every one has a load and inflation rating.
I am not sure what federal testing is required but all wheels have load and inflation ratings.
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:20 PM   #13
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Ah I meant the NHTSA, and they do about as much as the BBB, not much

Anyway, I can't say for all but most of the Tredit wheel line do not provide pressure ratings, only load ratings. You can see from the website they don't even list pressure:

T09

If you call them, they will just tell you they are good for whatever pressure you need for the tire size.

My complaint with Montana was they used a Tredit wheel that was stamped 3042 lbs, but then provided a sticker that staid 3750 @ 110 on each wheel. When I went to reinstall G tires, the tire vendor wouldn't do it because the sticker was not the correct way to identify the rating. I filed with the NHTSA (here is the link if interested)

</title> <meta name="description" content="" > <meta name="author" content="" > <meta name="keywords" content="" > <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0" > <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="safercar/jquery-ui

I got called by NHTSA and after a long discussion, he basically said Tredit did nothing wrong other than they shouldn't have ever mailed stickers out to owners (mine were stickered at Montana). He said there are no destructive tests that determine load rating or air pressure ratings on a wheel. (I imagined this big tensil strength test machine and crusher that tested every design )

He said the strength of the wheel is based on a specification for composition of the alloy and as long as it is followed the wheel company is allowed to stamp the load rating. Load rating is primarily based on stud size and number of lugs. Air pressure rating is irrelevant, because there is no standard for the wheels based on pressure. The wheel may be stamped with a pressure rating, but that is solely based on the tire that the wheel is intended to market. As explained, Tredit marketed a wheel for exclusive for Montana that was stamped 3042 to accommodate E rated ST tires rated at 3042 @ 80 psi, but Keystone switched to 7K axles mid year and the only tire available was the G614 at the time. They asked Tredit to retest the wheel, which there is no test, but Tredit re-stickered them at 3750 @ 110 psi. Per the NHTSA, Tredit was allowed to do that as the rating is based on a manufacturing spec and the wheels met the spec.


In the end, I got new wheels from Tredit so I could remount G tires, but it was an interesting stroll through the process.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg stamp.jpg (23.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg sticker.jpg (23.1 KB, 3 views)
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:35 AM   #14
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ON my previous fiver, a 36 Extreme 5 Carriage Carri-lite. I had aluminum wheel failure with G rated tires. I had 3 wheels develop hairline cracks in them that could not be detected by just looking at them. Submersed in a water tank was the only way to detect it. This would allow the tires to leak down, and thus i also had lots of tire trouble. I studied this extensively. Bottom line, it is not safe to put a G rated tire on a E rated wheel. They are stamped and rated. If you run 110 pounds pressure in a E rated 80# max air wheel your asking for failure. I opted to purchase steel wheels that were rated for 110# of air and had zero problems afterward.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstan View Post
ON my previous fiver, a 36 Extreme 5 Carriage Carri-lite. I had aluminum wheel failure with G rated tires. I had 3 wheels develop hairline cracks in them that could not be detected by just looking at them. Submersed in a water tank was the only way to detect it. This would allow the tires to leak down, and thus i also had lots of tire trouble. I studied this extensively. Bottom line, it is not safe to put a G rated tire on a E rated wheel. They are stamped and rated. If you run 110 pounds pressure in a E rated 80# max air wheel your asking for failure. I opted to purchase steel wheels that were rated for 110# of air and had zero problems afterward.
I would completely disagree and attribute your cracks to faulty manufacturing. Just my opinion. There are no air pressure ratings for wheels. It is a myth.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:13 AM   #16
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The only way to get to max load on the tire is to put the recommended air pressure in the tire.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:23 PM   #17
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Our 31SL came with T03 wheels which are stamped on the inside for 3580 lbs at 100psi and E rated Marathons. Had no problems with Marathons and wore them out. I believe they are Sendel brand wheels. We are running Carlisle F rated tires rated 3960 lbs at 95 psi on these wheels. Ran about 6000 miles since last January and no problems. All I had to do was change the valve stems from rubber to steel. Obviously I cannot exceed the wheel rating for load capacity but the additional tire capacity rating extends our safety factor.
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:03 PM   #18
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How come you had to change the valve stems if you went down in pressure?
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:07 PM   #19
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Not that I totally rely on internet Q&A as gospel, here is some additional backup to what I was told by the NHTSA - there just isn't a wheel psi rating, its all related to other factors:

https://www.etrailer.com/question-53860.html
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atom ant View Post
How come you had to change the valve stems if you went down in pressure?
The wheels came from Redwood with rubber stems. Discount Tire advised me to change to steel stems to run pressures higher than 80 psi which the original Marathons ran. I am now running about 93 psi when cold.
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